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Thread: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

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    What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    I didn't want to derail the thread where I saw the following post, so I thought I'd start a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    Of course, the prophets spoke of a time of great trouble and shaking for Israel preceding judgment, followed by mass repentance (cf. Zech. 12) not removal.
    I'm not seeing repentance being described in Zechariah 12. I'm sure you're referring to Zech 12:10-14 in particular.

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    Notice that it says they would mourn for Him (we both understand this to be speaking of Jesus) "as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.". Now, to me that comes across as speaking of people being saddened by and mourning someone's death, not repenting of their sins. How does one repent of his sins "as one mourneth for his only son"? Is that not speaking of someone mourning the death of their only son? If so then why wouldn't it be speaking of people mourning the death of the one who was pierced rather than being sorrowful about their sins? It says they are mourning "for Him" not for themselves and their own sins.

    When you look at the next verse that shows even more clearly that the mourning in Jerusalem is people mourning over someone's death and not mourning over their own sins.

    Zech 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    This is comparing the mourning in Jerusalem to the mourning that occurred when King Josiah was shot and killed with arrows in the battle that took place in the plain or valley of Megiddo (2 Chr 35:20-27).

    2 Chr 35:20After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Charchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him. 21But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who is with me, that he destroy thee not. 22Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. 23And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants, Have me away; for I am sore wounded. 24His servants therefore took him out of that chariot, and put him in the second chariot that he had; and they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died, and was buried in one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah.

    That was a case of people being saddened and mourning over Josiah's death and not a case of "mass repentance". There is no description at all of anyone repenting of their sins in 2 Chronicles 35:20-27, which the mourning described in Zech 12:10-11 is compared to. And since the context of the mourning in Jerusalem in Zech 12:10-14 is directly compared to the mourning over Josiah's death I don't see how you can conclude that Zech 12 has to do with "mass repentance". It has to with people mourning Christ's death just as people mourned Josiah's death. And many in Jerusalem mourned Christ's death around the time it occurred:

    Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus. 27And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

    Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. 47Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man. 48And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.

    Now, I know someone might make the argument that Zech 12:10-14 seems to indicate that everyone in Jerusalem would mourn for Christ, not just some. Well, 2 Chronicles 35:24 says that all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah. Does that mean literally everyone in Judah and Jerusalem mourned for him? I highly doubt it. I'm pretty sure he had some enemies there who probably did not mourn his death. It's highly doubtful that everyone in Judah and Jerusalem loved the king. So, that is hyperbolic language, which means it was written in a purposely exaggerated manner to emphasize the significance of Josiah's death. In Zech 12:10-14 I believe hyperbolic language was again used to emphasize the significance of Christ's death.

    Beyond all this, John indicated that them looking upon the one whom they pierced was already fulfilled back then:

    John 19:34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

    I understand that verses like Matt 24:30 and Rev 1:7 are written similarly to Zech 12:10 but that doesn't mean they are speaking of the fulfillment of Zech 12:10. If they were then what do we make of John saying it was already fulfilled in John 19:37? Plus, don't Matt 24:30 and Rev 1:7 give the impression of people being frightened by His coming and wailing over it rather than repenting of their sins upon seeing Him?

    What does it say He will do to unbelievers at His appearing in 2 Thess 1:7-8? He will take vengeance on them, not give them a chance to repent and put their faith in Him. Even if they were repenting at seeing Him wouldn't it be too late at that point to repent and put their faith in Him? I would think so. How would it be a case of putting their faith in Him if they were seeing Him in all His glory? Wouldn't be too hard to believe at that point, right? Everyone will believe at that point but it will be too late for those who do not believe before His coming because it says He will take vengeance on those who have rejected the gospel. There is nothing written about Him giving people a second chance to repent and believe in Him on the day He returns.

    So, Matt 24:30 and Rev 1:7 must be speaking in terms of people seeing Him at His return and realizing that it's too late at that point to repent and put their faith in Him and then wailing and gnashing their teeth over their own demise. If it was still possible for people to repent on the day Christ returns then why wouldn't Paul have mentioned that here:

    2 Thess 1:7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    The problem is that you have to make your case with connections that are neither explicit nor obvious from the text itself and then move onto the "hyperbolic language" argument to infer that what is presented as comprehensive isn't actually comprehensive, though Zech. 13 goes on to say that, in fact, the turning of the hearts of the people amongst the survivors is actually comprehensive.
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    The problem is that you have to make your case with connections that are neither explicit nor obvious from the text itself and then move onto the "hyperbolic language" argument to infer that what is presented as comprehensive isn't actually comprehensive, though Zech. 13 goes on to say that, in fact, the turning of the hearts of the people amongst the survivors is actually comprehensive.
    Do you have any specific responses to any of the points I made? It would be nice if you took the time to show exactly why you think my conclusions are not correct instead of just trying to show that what I said isn't explicit proven fact, which I didn't claim, anyway.

    What about the connection that is made between the mourning for Him who was pierced to the death of Josiah? What do you think is the connection between the mourning for Christ and the mourning over the death of Josiah?

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Do you have any specific responses to any of the points I made? It would be nice if you took the time to show exactly why you think my conclusions are not correct instead of just trying to show that what I said isn't explicit proven fact, which I didn't claim, anyway.

    What about the connection that is made between the mourning for Him who was pierced to the death of Josiah? What do you think is the connection between the mourning for Christ and the mourning over the death of Josiah?
    Where does the passage make that connection? How do we know that this is what Zechariah was communicating?
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by the rookie View Post
    Where does the passage make that connection?
    Between the mourning in Jerusalem for the one who was pierced (Christ) and the mourning for the death of Josiah? Here:

    Zech 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    What else could the "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" be referring to except for the mourning over the death of Josiah as recorded in 2 Chronicles 35:20-27?

    How do we know that this is what Zechariah was communicating?
    Are you speaking in terms of how do we know that Zechariah was saying that the mourning in Jerusalem was a mourning over Christ's death just like "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" was a mourning over Josiah's death? Since we know that the mourning in the valley of Megiddo had to do with people mourning Josiah's death I don't see why the mourning in Jerusalem for the one who was pierced would be a different type of mourning than that. I don't know why those two things would be directly compared if they weren't speaking of the same type of mourning in each case. What else would Zechariah have been saying in Zech 12:11?

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    It would be my opinion that the 'mourning over Jerusalem' would be describing the same in context to Matthew 24:30 which is referring to a time of the son of man coming in judgment as that day of the Lord. In Zech.12 it speaks of that day 17 times also this burden from 12-14 some 22 times connecting with Jerusalem. This burden of the word of God is pictured much the same as the little book of John and Ezekiel concering judgment that would come upon those that are rebellious. Ezekiel especially mentions lamenatations and mournings and woe.(Eze.2:10)

    So taken this understanding this would aline itself with what Jesus told the women of Jerusalem.

    Luke 23:28-3128But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. 30Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. 31For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beckrl View Post
    It would be my opinion that the 'mourning over Jerusalem' would be describing the same in context to Matthew 24:30 which is referring to a time of the son of man coming in judgment as that day of the Lord. In Zech.12 it speaks of that day 17 times also this burden from 12-14 some 22 times connecting with Jerusalem. This burden of the word of God is pictured much the same as the little book of John and Ezekiel concering judgment that would come upon those that are rebellious. Ezekiel especially mentions lamenatations and mournings and woe.(Eze.2:10)

    So taken this understanding this would aline itself with what Jesus told the women of Jerusalem.

    Luke 23:28-3128But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. 30Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. 31For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
    But the problem with this is that Zechariah 12:10 says that they would be mourning for him who was pierced, not for themselves. So, how does Matt 24:30 relate to that?

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    And what do you make of the comparison of that mourning to "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" which refers to the mourning over the death of King Josiah?

    Zech 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    2 Chr 35:22 Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. 23And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants, Have me away; for I am sore wounded. 24His servants therefore took him out of that chariot, and put him in the second chariot that he had; and they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died, and was buried in one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah.

    How is the mourning over the one whom they have pierced like what is described above? The only way I can see that it would be like that is if it's speaking about how people mourned Christ's death when He died, as described in Luke 23:48.

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    But the problem with this is that Zechariah 12:10 says that they would be mourning for him who was pierced, not for themselves. So, how does Matt 24:30 relate to that?
    That maybe understood in the same way Zech.13 told of them not knowing of him for they asked 'What are these wounds in thine hands'. It is these that shall mourn as even the land was to mourn in Zech.12:12. I would dare say that should be read literally that the land would mourn. To me that figurative language to express the same meaning as Matthew 24:30 that the tribes of the earth [land of Israel] shall mourn at the coming of judgment. They mourn for they recognize on that day that they killed the shepherd as if it was their only son. The rejection of the Messiah Zech. 11.

    Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    And what do you make of the comparison of that mourning to "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" which refers to the mourning over the death of King Josiah?
    There maybe a connection or even typology of King Josiah to the Messiah, but I still don't think it's relating at the point of his crucifixion that they mourned, but at that day of his coming. As the connection is from Zech 12:9 is to Zech. 12:10 that on that day God will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Now I don't take that to mean the earthly Jerusalem, but rather the heavenly Jerusalem.

    But I will say this that there seems to be the connection between Jesus and the day of the Lord. As it's the theme with in chapters 12 -14.

    Zech 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    2 Chr 35:22 Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God, and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. 23And the archers shot at king Josiah; and the king said to his servants, Have me away; for I am sore wounded. 24His servants therefore took him out of that chariot, and put him in the second chariot that he had; and they brought him to Jerusalem, and he died, and was buried in one of the sepulchres of his fathers. And all Judah and Jerusalem mourned for Josiah.

    How is the mourning over the one whom they have pierced like what is described above? The only way I can see that it would be like that is if it's speaking about how people mourned Christ's death when He died, as described in Luke 23:48.
    Although the following verse would have the land, house of David, the house of Levi, the family of Shimei, and the families that remain all separated each mourning part. I don't recall any record of that happening.

    Good discussion...

  9. #9

    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    A future event is in view in Zechariah 12:10-14 with regard to a regathered believing remnant part of national Israel

    [Isaiah 11; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 1:7]

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions View Post
    A future event is in view in Zechariah 12:10-14 with regard to a regathered believing remnant part of national Israel

    [Isaiah 11; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 1:7]
    Agreed. I see that as well.
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Between the mourning in Jerusalem for the one who was pierced (Christ) and the mourning for the death of Josiah? Here:

    Zech 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

    What else could the "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" be referring to except for the mourning over the death of Josiah as recorded in 2 Chronicles 35:20-27?

    Are you speaking in terms of how do we know that Zechariah was saying that the mourning in Jerusalem was a mourning over Christ's death just like "the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon" was a mourning over Josiah's death? Since we know that the mourning in the valley of Megiddo had to do with people mourning Josiah's death I don't see why the mourning in Jerusalem for the one who was pierced would be a different type of mourning than that. I don't know why those two things would be directly compared if they weren't speaking of the same type of mourning in each case. What else would Zechariah have been saying in Zech 12:11?
    The passage itself does not say that, you are inferring that it does but cannot prove that it does. It could be read, for example, as a prophecy - the phrase, "Behold, I will..." speaks of a time in the future, not a time in the past.
    The Rookie

    Twelve is the number of government. Thus, it is quite apropos that I am on my way towards wielding the power of twelve bars - each bar like, say, a tribe.....or a star.....or, maybe an apostle. A blue apostle. Like apostle smurfs. Does anyone remember smurfs? And all the controversy about them being from the devil? It's probably bad that I juxtaposed "apostle" and "smurf" in the same sentence. But then, I probably lost you at "blue apostle". Yes, my friends, this is what "rare jewel of a person" is actually implying. "Rare Jewel of a Person" really means, "Potentially Insane".

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Here's something that I just noticed that might be of interest.

    Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

    This says that the LORD will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.. If we look in Zech 14, we indeed see that the LORD does this, but that there are also survivors. With that in mind, let's look at the end of ch 12.

    Zechariah 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
    12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
    13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
    14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.


    Notice what it states in verse 14...All the families that remain. Remain from what? Doesn't Zech 14 give us the answer to that?

    Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    I would think that these could be referring to all the families that remain in Zech 12:14. If we put Zech 12 into the first century, then how do we make sense out of verse 14 in ch 12? Then if we look at ch 13, which is still speaking of in that same day, we see the following.

    Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    How does this fit with this age...I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered? That sounds like something similar to the following.

    Isaiah 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:
    9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

    Isaiah 2:18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
    19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
    20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
    21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

    Compare Verse 18-21 with Revelation 6:15-17.

    Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    According to Revelation 6:15-17, this is when the idols he shall utterly abolish. in Isaiah 2:18 occurs. So then, we have to connect that bit of info to
    Zechariah 13:2 in order to establish the correct time frame of in that day in Zech 12 and 13, and ch 14 for that matter as well. Otherwise one ends up with Zechariah 13:2 contradicting Isaiah 2:8 -9, since that passage clearly states there are idols in the land. Zechariah 13:2 states otherwise when in that day comes. Obviously that day hasn't arrived if we throw Revelation 6:15-17 in for clarity, in relation to the time factor.
    Last edited by divaD; Aug 17th 2011 at 03:20 PM. Reason: a few typos here and there

  13. #13

    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    The prophetic visions of the prophetic scriptures of the coming day of the Lord agree diva,

    Zechariah 12; 13; and 14; are views of the coming time of trouble for Israel .... the 70th week decreed [time of Jacob's trouble] .... and those nations "round about" who will attack Israel, but will end up being confronted by the Lord Himself at Armageddon [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 38; 39; Daniel 11:41; 12; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-14; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

    Humans have idols today .... the things they make with their hands and worship [materialism] .... the Lord is going to rid the earth of all of these things and render them useless during His coming visitation to judge a lost world of intransigence and unbelief .... and Israel will be square in the middle of the focus of His actions

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Do we have any Biblical evidence that more than a handful of people cared that Jesus died at the time?

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    Re: What type of mourning is described in Zechariah 12:10-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Here's something that I just noticed that might be of interest.

    Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

    This says that the LORD will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.. If we look in Zech 14, we indeed see that the LORD does this, but that there are also survivors. With that in mind, let's look at the end of ch 12.

    Zechariah 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
    12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
    13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
    14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.


    Notice what it states in verse 14...All the families that remain. Remain from what? Doesn't Zech 14 give us the answer to that?

    Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

    I would think that these could be referring to all the families that remain in Zech 12:14. If we put Zech 12 into the first century, then how do we make sense out of verse 14 in ch 12? Then if we look at ch 13, which is still speaking of in that same day, we see the following.

    Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

    How does this fit with this age...I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered? That sounds like something similar to the following.

    Isaiah 2:8 Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:
    9 And the mean man boweth down, and the great man humbleth himself: therefore forgive them not.

    Isaiah 2:18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.
    19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
    20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
    21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth.

    Compare Verse 18-21 with Revelation 6:15-17.

    Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    According to Revelation 6:15-17, this is when the idols he shall utterly abolish. in Isaiah 2:18 occurs. So then, we have to connect that bit of info to
    Zechariah 13:2 in order to establish the correct time frame of in that day in Zech 12 and 13, and ch 14 for that matter as well. Otherwise one ends up with Zechariah 13:2 contradicting Isaiah 2:8 -9, since that passage clearly states there are idols in the land. Zechariah 13:2 states otherwise when in that day comes. Obviously that day hasn't arrived if we throw Revelation 6:15-17 in for clarity, in relation to the time factor.
    I appreciate your effort to use scripture to interpret scripture. You basically made the point that Zech 12-14 all occurs "in that day", right? Well, what about John 19:37 saying that them looking upon the one whom they pierced was already fulfilled? And what about this verse, which was also already fulfilled:

    Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

    Matt 26:31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

    So, verses like John 19:37 and Matthew 26:31 place "that day" in the 1st century. With that in mind how can anyone think that Zech 12-14 is only about the future?

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