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Thread: How many seals have been opened?

  1. #1
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    How many seals have been opened?

    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    Every temptation is of the devil, and every sin leads to death.

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    I do not believe they have been opened yet, I believe the white horse is the antichrist. The scroll containing God's wrath so the white horse being evil is is consistent with the remainder of the scroll. Satan can and does disguise himself as an angel of light-thus white. Also, the the rider, being the antichrist, white represents his efforts of deception in that he is lying about being good

    Don't get me wrong, I do believe God is sending plenty of wake up calls and Christ return is drawing very nigh.
    Last edited by quiet dove; Jul 19th 2011 at 02:20 PM.




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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    I believe Jesus is the rider that was the conqueror mentioned of the White horse. I believe the first seal is all about the first coming of Christ. Only Jesus is pictured in the bible as riding the white horse, never Satan. Jesus came and conquered the devil, for all that believe. I can see where the next 'horsemen' can easily be historical as well. The 5th seal could be a picture of most any time after many saints had lived and died, gone to be with the Lord, and are anxious for their new earth. The 6th seal could be in progress as we speak.

    And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    (Rev 6:12-14)

    I've seen blood red moons in polluted cities. The sun turning 'black' can't be literally 'black' because black is absence of any light. I'm not sure of the reference there.

    Heaven departed as a scroll when it's rolled together. Think about it. When you unroll a scroll, you see the entire scroll. As it gets rolled together, you see less and less of that scroll as it's rolled up until when it's fully rolled, you don't see it any more. I admit I'm an old guy, but I know when I was a kid, planes had propellers. Jet engines were for military only. They didn't have commercial airlines like they do now. I lived near Cincinnati then and there was no CVG airport then. I lived across the river from Lunken airport (it was as tiny then as it is today). I recall many evening laying in the yard, looking up at all the stars and galaxies, watching for shooting stars. We lived 4 miles from downtown Cincy.

    That 'heaven' has rolled up 'as a scroll'. Used to be able to see all the stars and galaxies a little after sundown (in the 60s). By mid 70s, most of those stars were no longer visible until well after midnight. By the 80s, only some of those stars were visible after midnight. Go there today, anywhere within 5 miles of CVG, and you will be lucky to see one or two stars before midnight. The heaven above my old home town has departed "as a scroll when it's rolled together".

  4. #4

    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    I see all the seals in the past as been openned. As all of them are used in symbolizm to show Christ and his gospel and the seals of death and hell as being the judgments that the gospel carrying with it. Where we can fine were the gospel or the word of God is described as a two edged sword. The same is found here and where men are weighted and measured as wheat and barley. The latter seal of sixth descibed the fear that comes over man when he understands that he was weighted and found wanting he then crys out for the rocks to fall on him. The seven and final seal is the out pouring of the judgment upon the ones found wanting.

    So in conclusion these are symbolic to the gospel going out unto the world and there will be two types of men, one will recevie the good news unto life and the other would reject it and be founded wanting and condemned to death.Then in the judgment of these is found their destruction as described in the seventh seal which I can see as being relating to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

  5. #5

    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter121 View Post
    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    The first five seals are open, We can’t see number 5. Number six is being opened.

    Rev 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood.

    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

    Rev 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

    Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea,

    Rev 7:3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."

    The starting of the opening of the six seal started with the great earthquake that killed about 250,000 people on 12/26/2004, and that event moved every island and mountain out of its place. Shortly after that in 05 the servants started getting sealed. The moon has turned like blood the last two eclipse.

    I haven’t seen the stars fall, or a big meteor shower. I haven’t seen the sun turn dark, or black. I haven’t seen the sky recede as a scroll. But that is all that is left.

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter121 View Post
    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    NONE.............................

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter121 View Post
    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    None of them. But perhaps very soon...

    Blessings

    and Popcorn


    "You can make the scriptures say whatever you want if you torture them long enough"

  8. #8

    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet dove View Post
    I do not believe they have been opened yet, I believe the white horse is the antichrist. The scroll containing God's wrath so the white horse being evil is is consistent with the remainder of the scroll. Satan can and does disguise himself as an angel of light-thus white. Also, the the rider, being the antichrist, white represents his efforts of deception in that he is lying about being good

    Don't get me wrong, I do believe God is sending plenty of wake up calls and Christ return is drawing very nigh.
    If you contrast the seals with Mark 13 (and parallels) you will discover that Rev 6 is based on Mark13. False messiahs (Mark 13.5-6; the white horse), wars and rumours of wars (Mark 13.7-8a; the red horse), famines (Mark 13.8; the black horse), pestilence, earthquakes, wars, famine etc. (Mark 13.8; the pale horse). The persecution of believers (Mark 13.9-13; the fifth seal). The second coming and final judgment (Mark 13.24-27; the sixth seal). They all, apart from the last, occur concurrently.

    The seventh seal speaks of course of the seven trumpets and the seven vials, which are intensifications of troubles which are expeienced throughout the ages in different parts of the world, They too occur concurrently with the first 5 seals.

    The opening of the seals is of course a description of Jesus Christ controlling the destiny of the nations.

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by petepet View Post
    If you contrast the seals with Mark 13 (and parallels) you will discover that Rev 6 is based on Mark13. False messiahs (Mark 13.5-6; the white horse), wars and rumours of wars (Mark 13.7-8a; the red horse), famines (Mark 13.8; the black horse), pestilence, earthquakes, wars, famine etc. (Mark 13.8; the pale horse). The persecution of believers (Mark 13.9-13; the fifth seal). The second coming and final judgment (Mark 13.24-27; the sixth seal). They all, apart from the last, occur concurrently.

    The seventh seal speaks of course of the seven trumpets and the seven vials, which are intensifications of troubles which are expeienced throughout the ages in different parts of the world, They too occur concurrently with the first 5 seals.

    The opening of the seals is of course a description of Jesus Christ controlling the destiny of the nations.
    An interesting post, don't agree with all of it but you make some very good points. With the seals, I do agree that they get more intense, I think they may be chronological but that does not mean one stops when another begins so I guess that would be concurrently in a way? I think God is sending out warnings now and that those warnings are what the four horsemen will bring/do, but not that the seals are opened yet. God warns over and over for His people to repent before He sends the actual punishment, in this case wrath upon those who did not love the truth.

    We have had and continue to see persecution of the saints, this is already horrible and intensifying, it is just the West is turning a blind eye to it and it rarely, if ever, is found worthy to report on the news. And I believe that while in the West this violence is not happening, there is still a plan being worked to destroy. I think most of us can see that. With Western priorities self and no longer morals and God, but being politically correct and under that banner we will loose this war, peaceable as it may be....well, until we've lost, then it will no longer be so peaceable for the believer in Christ Jesus. Add into that the efforts by so many to take away the Deity of Christ, even professing Christendom teaching that we can seek,approach, come to, and worship God just anyway we want, and......well.....it's just a mess.

    Sorry--rant over

    I guess what I am saying is I believe the foundation is laid, we are living on 'borrowed time'.(whatever that saying is)

    I also agree it is Jesus controlling the destiny of the nations, it is His wrath and He is taking what is rightfully His.




  10. #10

    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by petepet View Post
    If you contrast the seals with Mark 13 (and parallels) you will discover that Rev 6 is based on Mark13. False messiahs (Mark 13.5-6; the white horse), wars and rumours of wars (Mark 13.7-8a; the red horse), famines (Mark 13.8; the black horse), pestilence, earthquakes, wars, famine etc. (Mark 13.8; the pale horse). The persecution of believers (Mark 13.9-13; the fifth seal). The second coming and final judgment (Mark 13.24-27; the sixth seal). They all, apart from the last, occur concurrently.

    The seventh seal speaks of course of the seven trumpets and the seven vials, which are intensifications of troubles which are expeienced throughout the ages in different parts of the world, They too occur concurrently with the first 5 seals.

    The opening of the seals is of course a description of Jesus Christ controlling the destiny of the nations.
    I do not think anyone will doubt that Mark 13.5-13 commenced in 1st century AD. Tacitus indeed looked on 1st century AD as the century of catastrophe because of the wars, earthquakes, famines and perstilences. That they would go on through history was inevitable. Thus portraying them as the result of Jesus opening the seals of destiny was a comfort to all Christians who had to endure these catastrophes.

    That such things will continue on until the coming of Christ is also inevitable, and we see it in our own day.

    When it comes to the sixth seal none of us will survive it. If the sun becomes black, and the stars fall to the earth, and every mountain and island is moved out of its place I am not convinced that it is survivable. It is really a depiction of the end. It is the great and final Day of His wrath, the great day of Judgment.

    The 'after this' of 7.1 is not indicating what will follow, it is indicating that John is moving on to another vision.

    It is noticeable that John come again and again to the final day of judgment. e.g. 11.15-18; 14.14-20; 16.18-21; 19.11-21; 20.11-15. Each ends a particular vision.

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by petepet View Post
    I do not think anyone will doubt that Mark 13.5-13 commenced in 1st century AD. Tacitus indeed looked on 1st century AD as the century of catastrophe because of the wars, earthquakes, famines and perstilences. That they would go on through history was inevitable. Thus portraying them as the result of Jesus opening the seals of destiny was a comfort to all Christians who had to endure these catastrophes.

    That such things will continue on until the coming of Christ is also inevitable, and we see it in our own day.

    When it comes to the sixth seal none of us will survive it. If the sun becomes black, and the stars fall to the earth, and every mountain and island is moved out of its place I am not convinced that it is survivable. It is really a depiction of the end. It is the great and final Day of His wrath, the great day of Judgment.

    The 'after this' of 7.1 is not indicating what will follow, it is indicating that John is moving on to another vision.

    It is noticeable that John come again and again to the final day of judgment. e.g. 11.15-18; 14.14-20; 16.18-21; 19.11-21; 20.11-15. Each ends a particular vision.
    I misunderstood, I didn't realize you were saying that you see the opening of the seals as already having begun. I guess you already know I disagree there.





  12. #12

    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by that_prophet View Post
    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    NO,,, the first one MUST be opened very soon though,
    I believe that it is opened when the anti-christ signs,
    the seven year peace treaty with Israel
    Except to people who dogmatically put all of chapers 4-19 into the future as a matter of dogmatism (there is no good reason for doing so) I cannot for the life of me see why chapters 4 & 5 have to be put into John's future. John saw things as they were in his day. And that was when the seals began to be opened, following the pattern of Mark 13. It was an indication that Christ, having risen, had taken control of history. He was exercising all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28.18).

    There is not indication in scripture that the antichrist will seal a seven year peace treaty with Israel (although I know what youi are going to say. It is, however, exegetically unsound).
    Last edited by petepet; Jul 22nd 2011 at 11:52 AM.

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by petepet View Post
    Except to people who dogmatically put all of chapers 14-19 into the future as a matter of dogmatism (there is no good reason for doing so) I cannot for the life of me see why chapters 4 & 5 have to be put into John's future. John saw things as they were in his day. And that was when the seals began to be opened, following the pattern of Mark 13. It was an indication that Christ, having risen, had taken control of history. He was exercising all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28.18).

    There is not indication in scripture that the antichrist will seal a seven year peace treaty with Israel (although I know what youi are going to say. It is, however, exegetically unsound).
    AMEN. The future was only 1/3 of what John was to write about in the book of Revelation. That means 2/3 of Revelation must be about past and present (to John) events.

    Write the things which thou hast seen[past], and the things which are[present], and the things which shall be hereafter[future];
    (Rev 1:19)

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter121 View Post
    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    The question makes an assumption that Revelation can be read only like a screenplay, starting at the beginning and proceeding through a series of sequential events until we get to the final curtain. But there is at least one other way of looking at the book which I'd like to offer for your consideration. This isn't a view which originated with me; it was taught in the fifties by the late Dr Martin Lloyd Jones of Westminster Chapel, London.

    The book may be seen as comprising seven sections, each complete in itself, and each describing the same sequence of events but from a different perspective. The easiest way to see the whole picture is to write out the text in the form of a matrix arranged as seven vertical columns.

    The first three columns describe God's dealing with sinners.

    Column 1 contains 1:1 to 3:22, and consists of the letters to the churches.
    Column 2 contains 4:1 to 8:6, and describes the seven seals and events upon earth.
    Column 3 contains 8:6 to 11:19, and describes the seven trumpets and the warnings associated with them.

    Then the next three columns describe God dealing with the unseen powers behind the world system.

    Column 4 contains 11:19 to 15:4, and describes seven signs which tell of coming punishments.
    Column 5 contains 15:5 to 16:21, and describes the seven vials (bowls) of punishments poured out.
    Column 6 contains 17:1 to 19:10, and describes God's dealing with Babylon.

    Then finally we have a single section in which all the attention is upon God Himself and His victory over satan.

    Column 7 contains 19:11 to 22:21, and describes the final overthrow of the beast, the false prophet, and satan, and the glorious eternity of the bride of Christ.

    Now the interesting thing which jumps out at you if the text is arranged as I have outlined it above, is the strong parallelism and symmetry between the columns. Reading horizontally across the columns we have:-

    Row 1: 1st church, 1st seal white horseman, 1st trumpet the land, 1st sign man child, 1st vial the land, woman on the beast, Rider on white horse and 1st seizure of satan.
    Row 2: 2nd church, 2nd seal red horseman, 2nd trumpet the sea, 2nd sign red dragon/7 heads 10 horns, 2nd vial the sea, scarlet beast 7 heads 10 horns, 2nd seizure of satan.
    Row 3: 3rd church, 3rd seal black horseman, 3rd trumpet rivers, 3rd sign beast from the sea/7 heads 10 horns, 3rd vial rivers, beast 7 heads 10 horns, New Jerusalem & river of life.
    Row 4: 4th church, 4th seal pale horseman, 4th trumpet the Sun, 4th sign beast from the land, 4th vial the Sun, Babylon fallen, Sun no longer needed.
    Row 5: 5th church, 5th seal Martyrs cry, 5th trumpet locusts, 5th sign false miracles, 5th vial seat of the beast, collapse of trade, John falls at the feet of the angel.
    Row 6: 6th church, 6th seal powers shaken/144000 sealed, 6th trumpet Euphrates/7 thunders/2 witnesses, 6th sign 666 mark (sign) of the beast/144000/Babylon fallen,6th vial Euphrates, Babylon (on the Euphrates)/blessed are the called, seal not the sayings/blessed are the obedient.
    Row 7: 7th church, 7th seal calm, 7th trumpet Kingdom of God, 7th sign 7 angels 7 plagues/victorious saints, 7th vial air/earthquake/hail, John falls at feet of angel, Come Lord Jesus.

    It's not easy to give the picture verbally; a graphic artist could do a much better job than I have here. But I hope the above may be a stimulus to thought (and I haven't even touched upon the numerics and gematria of the book) for it really is a marvel and a wonder. But I hope I have demonstrated that the book can be read in at least two dimensions, of seven rows across and seven columns down. If you take a large clean sheet of paper and write it all out for yourself along the above lines, you'll see what I mean. (Of course nothing is quite perfect; there are some awkward bits at the end. But then I suppose that's what we should expect of a book like Revelation:- Awkward Bits at the End!)

    Maranatha!

    Ian

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    Re: How many seals have been opened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter121 View Post
    I know this really determines on how you view revelations, but what do you all think.

    Do you think the seals have been opened or not.

    If so how many has been opened?
    By my understanding and guesstimation, I would say we are presently in the 5th seal. But I also believe that the seals began to be broken at the ascension of Christ, and we are presently expecting the 6th and 7th seals...either that or all were broken a long time ago, but we are presently experiencing the 5th seal, waiting for the 6th and 7th seals to be fulfilled, since each seal takes time for their fulfillment to be complete.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

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