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Thread: What does "flesh" and/or "carnal" mean?

  1. #1
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    What does "flesh" and/or "carnal" mean?

    In the contexts "of the flesh" or "in the flesh". It seems to me this term is used often simply as a means of disagreement, whereby "I don't agree with activity XYZ because its 'of the flesh'" or "you're thinking carnally".

    I have been told enjoyment of music is carnal/'of the flesh'.
    I have been told enjoyment of beer is carnal/'of the flesh'.
    I have been told that logic and reason is carnal/'of the flesh'.

    I've heard it so often I plain old don't know what it means anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    In the contexts "of the flesh" or "in the flesh". It seems to me this term is used often simply as a means of disagreement, whereby "I don't agree with activity XYZ because its 'of the flesh'" or "you're thinking carnally".

    I have been told enjoyment of music is carnal/'of the flesh'.
    I have been told enjoyment of beer is carnal/'of the flesh'.
    I have been told that logic and reason is carnal/'of the flesh'.

    I've heard it so often I plain old don't know what it means anymore.
    To be in/of the flesh or carnal is to be opposed to God.

    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Gal 5
    16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

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    Do neutral decisions that on the surface don't involve God count in the carnal camp as well? Or is there such a thing?

    How would logic or reason be counter to God?

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    To be in/of the flesh or carnal is to be opposed to God.

    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Gal 5
    16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    I see. It's the spiritual equivalent to "playing the race card". Got it.
    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death ye will find him;
    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him;
    "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
    "Tho' all the world betray thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    To be in/of the flesh or carnal is to be opposed to God.

    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    Gal 5
    16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    "Carnality" or "flesh" is anything that opposes the counsel of God in Scripture (Rom 7:18; Matt 26:41; 16:23)

    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    Do neutral decisions that on the surface don't involve God count in the carnal camp as well? Or is there such a thing?

    How would logic or reason be counter to God?
    Can you give an example of what you're talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Can you give an example of what you're talking about?
    Like when I'm told that logic is "carnal".

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB View Post
    "Carnality" or "flesh" is anything that opposes the counsel of God in Scripture (Rom 7:18; Matt 26:41; 16:23)

    Z.
    Right. It's being opposed to God and His ways, which are taught in scripture.

  9. #9
    goykodesh Guest
    Maybe think of it in this perspective; and I am quoting what someone once said in a discussion -

    "The Law (God's Law) is indeed restrictive and bondage - to our carnality..."

    Don't confuse man made fences (such as "don't listen to this kind _____ of music", etc.) around God's Law as divinely inspired. I believe Jesus refered to the imposition of these man made fences as 'heavy burdens and yokes.' If you choose to abstain from something that tempts you, then that should remain hidden between you and God; it may not have application for someone else, and vice versa. What works for you may not work for someone else, but what works for you has a special place in your fellowship with God.
    Willful sin is rooted in intent.

    Treasure and hold close to your heart God's Word and keep your intent pure to serve and obey Him the best you can. If you make a mistake, He'll forgive you and set you on the right path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    Like when I'm told that logic is "carnal".
    God gave us the ability to use logic and reason things out so using that ability is not carnal in and of itself. It's the conclusions that we sometimes come to after using logic that can be carnal if those conclusions contradict God's will and His teachings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    Like when I'm told that logic is "carnal".
    I suppose it depends what you're using your logic for...
    God did give us "common sense" right?

    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Clavicula_Nox View Post
    I see. It's the spiritual equivalent to "playing the race card". Got it.
    Sorry, but I'm not sure what you meant by that. Can you elaborate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB View Post
    I suppose it depends what you're using your logic for...
    For the determination of truth. What else would logic be useful for?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZAB View Post
    God did give us "common sense" right?
    Not that I know of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John146 View Post
    Sorry, but I'm not sure what you meant by that. Can you elaborate?
    My issue is not with the scripture at all. My issue is how it is used to dismiss another's arguments or beliefs. I compared it to what is referred to as "Playing the race card" which is a method dishonest types of people resort to when they have no possibly rebuttal but to imply their opponent is "a racist" and thus, unworthy of any further discussion. It can also be compared to a logical fallacy known as "Reducto ad hitlerum" whereupon an individual seeks to end an argument by implying their opponent shares a view with hitler and is thus unworthy of continued dialogue.

    Example: "Oh yeah? Well that sounds like something Hitler would say!"

    at that point, the discussion shifts from the actual subject to the accused finding some way of avoiding the Hitler-comparison.

    In the given example:

    "The use of logic and critical thinking is of the flesh!"

    the comparison should be obvious.


    A few years back, several members of this board would use the phrase "You're feeling convicted!" as a means of ending an argument and declaring victory. They would assert that a person "felt convicted" and disagreed for the sheer act of disagreement. It was very dishonest and pervasive.
    The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
    In the ranks of death ye will find him;
    His father's sword he hath girded on,
    And his wild harp slung behind him;
    "Land of Song!" said the warrior bard,
    "Tho' all the world betray thee,
    One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
    One faithful harp shall praise thee!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisLeast View Post
    For the determination of truth. What else would logic be useful for?
    Ummm, we could use logic to say, "if I play in the street, I may get hit by a car!"

    Not that I know of.
    This (the previous example) would be common sense.

    Z.
    "Unto you therefore which believe, He is precious" (1 Peter 2:7)



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