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bdh
Aug 27th 2002, 07:00 AM
REV 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

What do these symbolize? Do they refer to people or nations or something completely different?

DrRoi
Aug 27th 2002, 01:21 PM
The thing about symbology is that there is always more than one layer of meaning. The popular view of this scripture is that these are nations, and that may well be true. There is a picture there; I just don’t know what it is yet because I have yet to research it. “Mouth like a lion” has a two fold meaning that I can see off hand. 1. Jesus is the “Lion of the tribe of Judah” so this beast is pretending to be The Messiah. 2. “Satan goes around like a lion seeing what he can devour.” A lion is symbolic of a king. The Bible asks, “Can a leopard change its spots?” which seems to me that this “beast” can’t change his nature even if he wanted to. The best way to find out what the symbolic meanings of things are is to do a search of the words in question, see how they are used elsewhere, and in what context.

bdh
Aug 28th 2002, 07:05 AM
Based on Daniel 7, a number of people seem to think the following:

The Lion = Great Britain
The Bear = Russia
The Eagle = The United States
The Leopard = Germany (some say France)
Ten horned beast = 10 end time nations the antichrist will usurp

Some links that may help:
http://www.fastboot.com/united_states_bible.html
http://www.thekingiscoming.com/Tbs/2002/200207/the_bible_says.html
http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/united-states-prophecy.html

Jan
Aug 29th 2002, 06:17 AM
Have you noticed that the "animals" mentioned in Revelation are opposite of those mentioned in Daniel? Know why? <><

bdh
Aug 29th 2002, 01:29 PM
No, do you? :D

Jan
Sep 12th 2002, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by bdh
No, do you? :D Ok...since my OP , I have been reading...oh oh! LOL

Daniel' beast are represented as a lion, a bear, a leopard and the 4th beast with 10 horns.

John's beasts are presented in reverse, that is, the sea-beast with 10 horns, the leopard, the bear and the lion.

They are seen in reverse order because John was looking back in time, while Daniel was looking forward in time. Note that John saw all of these in reverse except the ten-horned kingdom, which was yet in his furture <><

bdh
Sep 12th 2002, 02:09 PM
That is very interesting Jan. Must admit, Ihad not noticed :) but then again, I don't claim to be a scholar on Biblical prophecy ;)

My guess is that they will have more than one meaning as DrRoi pointed out. Possibly meant different things at different times in history. What I'm interested in is what they symbolize in our time. Are they nations? Are they people?

Jan
Sep 14th 2002, 06:22 AM
Ah, soooo, we're gonna get technical??? LOL...j/k.....I'll be right back ya :) <><

adventwatch
Oct 12th 2002, 05:53 AM
[quote]Originally posted by bdh
Based on Daniel 7, a number of people seem to think the following:

The Lion = Great Britain
The Bear = Russia
The Eagle = The United States
The Leopard = Germany (some say France)
Ten horned beast = 10 end time nations the antichrist will usurp

Read the whole book of Daniel...
The Lion= the kindom of Babylon
The Bear=Medo-Persia
The Leopard= Grecia
The terrible beast with 10 horns= the Roman empire(which was broken up into 10 kingdoms).
The little horn that came up out of the remnants of the Roman empire= the papacy... Joseph(adventwatch@hotmail.com)

MAC
Oct 12th 2002, 06:22 AM
It takes allot of discipline to study, I my self don't no yet but I tend to look for a spiritual meaning with the church and with man

recoveringpunker
Oct 13th 2002, 02:17 AM
Here is a position I have read.

It is a believed to be a government. This view looks more at the characteristics of the government.

Leopard- Sneaky. Will attack its prey by suprose. Such as dropping out of tree onto its prey at night.

Lion- Will chase down its prey in daylight.

Feet of a Bear- Bears have non-retractable claws. It walks with its feet flat on the ground. A leopard walks on its toes. This is a possible symbol of a democratic government. Since a bear walks like people. Feet flat on the ground.
The part about bears not having retractable claws like a leopard or lion, is that this means the government will always have its "claws" out. Not ever playing nicely with people who do not obey thier laws or rules.

Also this beast starts in Verse 1. And it {the dragon} stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up from the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten crowns, and on his heads were blaphemous names.

Now having ten horns and crowns, but only seven heads. I think that could be a colective government, such as the U.N. That means there has to be at least 3 heads with 3 horns and crowns. That could mean 3 bigger countries with more power or authority.

Now the dragon gives the beast power. The world worships the beast because they dragon gave it power. So we will see the "Dragon" give the "beast" authority. Also one head will have a head wound. Which later heals. So this is a head wound, not someting that looks like a head wound. Now a second beast comes, and is represented by a lamb that speaks like a dragon. This would be the anti-christ. Looks like Jesus, but acts like satan. So this first beast comes into play before the anti-christ. The first beast is the one that wages war on the saints. So we have a fight comming before the anti-christ.

Also, this beast has no mention of an eagle. That does or does not mean the US is or isn't involved.

VISHNU
Oct 23rd 2002, 02:26 PM
Have ye not read Daniel? One thing I must put to rest now. The eagle is not the United States. The eagle stands for the old Pagan Roman Empire. Like us they used an eagle.

Sincerely,

DrRoi
Oct 26th 2002, 08:33 AM
The “beasts” in Daniel are born out in history as the Babylonian Empire, the Media Persian Empire, the Greek Empire, and the Roman Empire. Thank you Vishnu! The Eagle is NOT the U.S. The United States can not be proven in Scripture as it is not part of the Biblical world. Many have tried to put the U.S. into Biblical prophecy, The 7th Day Adventist for instance believed that the U.S. was the “Spiritual Israel” This of course was proven wrong in 1948. Beasts are a symbol for mankind in general, and nations as a whole. Our physical being is the Beast, as our Spiritual being is the Christ. Our minds are the symbolic Armageddon where the battle between the beast, and the Spirit do battle for dominion. Those who reject the Christ (the image of God) within are antichrist. The problem with trying to create scenarios from Biblical prophecy is that they are inevitably wrong.

bdh
Oct 27th 2002, 05:10 AM
Not trying to throw a spanner in the works here but if the Bible is prophetic then surely it can and does refer to the US (or any other nation for that matter) in the sense that it speaks of events which are still to take place? If an event is still to occur, can one say with any degree of certainty that this nation or that nation is not going to be involved?

Stated differently, whether America is the eagle or not, is it not a significant fact in itself that America is the only real super power in the world today? Throughout history God has used the super power of the day for some specific task. E.g. the Egyptians, Medes, Persians, Roman Empire etc. If you believe God is consistent, does it not follow that America will be [is] as significant player in the end times scenario?

DrRoi
Oct 27th 2002, 10:36 AM
I understand your point BDH, and if that is the case then the U.S. as well as Europe , or the West in general is the remnant of the Roman Empire.

There is also the other possibility that the U.S. will not be around as a super power when these things happen. We can not assume that America plays a part in the Last Days. I hope it does, but there is no true evidence to support the claim. There are many countries that have the eagle as their national emblem. Iraq for instance, Germany, Rome etc. Sometimes in the Bible the Eagle is mistranslated and the word Vulture should be used. This is all guessing on our part, and we won’t know until it happens as in all prophecy. The Eagle symbolically speaking is a picture of God, and it is possible that it is referring to a country predestined by God to play this role. Could it be America? Yes it could, but it is not necessarily inevitable

2tim
Jan 8th 2003, 05:18 PM
As usual, Adventwatch, you are right on the money and have the Word to back it up.

I'm willing to guess that you and I are singing the same hymn...mixaphorically speaking. Let's find out for sure though.

Tell me, is the testimony of Jesus christ the spirit of prophecy in God's remnant church? (Rev 12:17 and 19:10)

Your fellowservant
2Tim.

adventwatch
Jan 8th 2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by 2tim
As usual, Adventwatch, you are right on the money and have the Word to back it up.

I'm willing to guess that you and I are singing the same hymn...mixaphorically speaking. Let's find out for sure though.

Tell me, is the testimony of Jesus christ the spirit of prophecy in God's remnant church? (Rev 12:17 and 19:10)

Your fellowservant
2Tim.



The Bible clearly says this is so.

God's remnant will keep the ten commandments. They are not saved by commandment keeping, but they keep them out of obedience and love of God. They are saved by grace through faith in Christ.
The Spirit of prophecy will be found in these last days. Where there is no vision, the people perish(Prov 29 v.18). God's prophets are always slandered and hated by many. False wittnesses will acuse the prophets, just as they acused Jesus. Look for this...
God's remnant will come from many denominations. One or two denominations may be in the forefront but no one will be saved because they belong to them. All people will make a choice to be sealed by God or accept the mark of the beast. There will be a close of probation BEFORE the plagues are poured out. Choose wisely.

Joseph(adventwatch)
*

2tim
Jan 8th 2003, 06:44 PM
It is as I suspected. You and I are standing in the same pew. Perhaps you can help me with something. I was speaking to someone else - in another thread - about the seventy weeks and the stoning of steven and the gospel going to the gentiles and I cant remember where I got the date 34 AD for Steven's stoning. Do you recall where I might find it?

I remember where 457 BC comse from, but not 34 AD.

Bearing the message of the three angels,
2Tim

adventwatch
Jan 8th 2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by 2tim
It is as I suspected. You and I are standing in the same pew. Perhaps you can help me with something. I was speaking to someone else - in another thread - about the seventy weeks and the stoning of steven and the gospel going to the gentiles and I cant remember where I got the date 34 AD for Steven's stoning. Do you recall where I might find it?

I remember where 457 BC comse from, but not 34 AD.

Bearing the message of the three angels,
2Tim


Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people (Dan 9 v.24). The decree was in 457 BC. seventy weeks in prophecy is 490 years. This takes us to AD 34 (the stoning of Steven). Remember... there is no year 0. Many forget this when doing the math.

From the decree to the messiah is 69 weeks or 483 years (Dan 9 v.25). Remembering there is no year 0, this takes us to AD 27 and to the baptism of Jesus (see Acts 10 v.38, Matt 3 v.16&17, Luke 3 v.21&22, Luke 4 v.18).
Please note that the 69 weeks was divided into 7 weeks and 62 weeks. This is important because the the reconstruction was completed in 408 BC (7 weeks or 49 years) exactly.

This leaves 7 years (1 week in prophecy) from messiah to gospell being sent to gentiles. Conserning this week (7 years) from AD 27 to AD 34 we go to Dan 9 v.26 & 27. Here we find the "messiah being cut off, but not for Himself"(v.26), "in the midst of the week"(v.27), AD 31. Also... v.27 tells us He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease". Compare this to Matt 27 v.50 & 51, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

Jesus is Lord... the Bible tells me so...

Joseph(adventwatch)
*

2tim
Jan 9th 2003, 03:48 PM
I'm with you all the way to there but what I don't remember is where I got the date of 34 AD for Steven's stoning. Do you recall?

2Tim

kmb
Jan 29th 2003, 03:05 PM
To all,

Rev 13:2

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority

Why must this somehow symbolize nations or anything else?

If someone was truely interested in the meaning of this, wouldn't it be appropriate to study this heraldic beast?

This symbol has been around and in use for hundreds of years.

I find it interesting that this symbol is displayed on the "coat of arms" of the british royal family. There are ten of these heraldic beast protrayed on the Prince of Wales coat of arms alone.

I also find it interesting that the symbol of wales is the "red dragon" and is displayed on the future King of Englands coat of arms. Again very interesting..."the future king of England"

"Kingship has yet to bestowed upon him"

We always talk about the meaning of 6-6-6 and how to determine this.

In Hebrew each letter has a corresponding numerical value, using the hebrew system Prince Charles of Wales name translated into hebrew calculates to 666......also a study of names will show that "charles" means "man"

"calculate the number of his name, it is the number of "man" or "charles"......

just some thoughts

kmb

Vince G
Jan 29th 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by bdh
REV 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

What do these symbolize? Do they refer to people or nations or something completely different?


As far as I know the Leopard is a symbol of speed and ferocity.

The bear is a symbol of worldly power, being ferocious and cunning.

In the book of Revelation the Lion is a symbol used to represent the vicious and ruthless enemies of God and His people.

God Bless
Vince G

chal
Jan 29th 2003, 09:01 PM
Are ya'll sure those aren't football teams? Could give those Christians that think God approves of gambling an insight into which team to bet on.

Ta-An
Feb 2nd 2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by chal
Are ya&#039;ll sure those aren&#039;t football teams? Could give those Christians that think God approves of gambling an insight into which team to bet on.
How about the World-cup-Cricket
:lol::lol::hmm:

Tamararc
Feb 13th 2003, 06:11 AM
The lion is my favorite symbol in the bible. The lion of the tribe of Judah. Also a symbol of satan prowling. Like the Lion (of the tribe of Judah) protects his pride of lionesses from the wandering rogue male (satan) who seeks to take them away from him. :=
In real life, that is what happens. One or two lions protect the pride from rogue males seeking to take over the pride. These rogue males, if they succeed, will systematically kill all the offspring of the defeated lions, in order to bring the lionesses into estrus. I love how God is so thorough in His symbolism! :=

kanweiji
Feb 26th 2003, 11:21 PM
I have read many references to Revelation in the context that it is a Christain apocolyptic book--

soooooooooo...........maybe you folks can relieve me of my dillusions in dispelling the belief I have that revelations was in fact originally written to serve as a component to the gnostic jewish faith, and most interestingly it was an account of creation for those folks who belonged to the gnostic jewish faith--that particular faith being a very liberal, and loosely identified belief structure that departed from the traditions and cultures of the jewish lifestyle and served to be a precursor to what we now recognize as &quot;christianity&quot;, and the direct result of jews growing weary of the meeting tent and other abstract forms of access to God, a faith motivated by the followers fundamental desire to find a more direct means of knowing God--at any rate the book was &quot;pirated&quot; and some wording was changed to give it a strictly christain meaning and emphasis--is this not true? If I am correct on this and I am sure someone will let me know if I am not--the original book of revelation was discovered in other written works that existed prior to the one you are familiar with now, although it differed drastically in some areas it was still so close to the christian version that the fact that it was in fact the same uneditted book could not be discounted.




:^:^

Acerohombre
Apr 2nd 2003, 11:41 PM
I don&#039;t know if anyone has mentioned this..I scanned the previous posts.

I think that one of the easier comparisons is that these three...Lion, Bear, Leopard were three of the four beasts that were in the night vision of Daniel 7 and were spared by God.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Its apparent since that fourth dreadful beast is destroyed that the remnant of the remaining three will be what Satan will have to use to compile that last empire. Thus, a leopard, the feet of a bear and a mouth of a lion.

recoveringpunker
Apr 2nd 2003, 11:48 PM
I mentioned a view on what those three could represent.

Leopard= sneak attack. They sit in trees at night and jump down on their prey.

Bear= Flat footed (like people which could mean republic) but also a bear&#039;s claws are always out. The are not retractable. So it is always ready to attack.

Lion= King of the jungle, mighty, attacks out in the open.


The mentioning of the Eagle I don&#039;t buy. There is no Eagle in Revelations. BUt America uses an eagle, Rome used an eagle, and I have noticed that Iraq also uses an eagle. So yeah......

VISHNU
Apr 3rd 2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by adventwatch
[quote]Originally posted by bdh
Based on Daniel 7, a number of people seem to think the following:

The Lion = Great Britain
The Bear = Russia
The Eagle = The United States
The Leopard = Germany (some say France)
Ten horned beast = 10 end time nations the antichrist will usurp

Read the whole book of Daniel...
The Lion= the kindom of Babylon
The Bear=Medo-Persia
The Leopard= Grecia
The terrible beast with 10 horns= the Roman empire(which was broken up into 10 kingdoms).
The little horn that came up out of the remnants of the Roman empire= the papacy... Joseph(adventwatch@hotmail.com)

Adventwatch,
You are right. The Lion, Bear, Lepard, and Eagle does NOT stand for Great Britan, USA, Russia, and Germany. But are the nations of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. I have known this for years.

We know that the Eagle stands for Imperial Rome, because the symbol they used was the Eagle, and from Matthew 24:15:

When ye therefore see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

For it was Imperial Rome which entered the Temple and pulled down EVERY stone off of each other during the Roman-Jewish War, when the troops entered Jerusalem, ransacked the city, and burned the temple.

Bravo Adventwatch.

Sincerely,

Acerohombre
Apr 3rd 2003, 07:13 PM
You are right. The Lion, Bear, Lepard, and Eagle does NOT stand for Great Britan, USA, Russia, and Germany. But are the nations of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.


I have done enough research to believe that this is not necessarily the case. Especially comparing Medo-Persia to the Bear. It seems to lack somewhat.

Keeping this in mind and knowing that in another vision of Daniel 8, he undoubtedly sees Medo-Persia as the two horned Ram and Greece as the Goat whose horn broke into four smaller ones.

Why would in one vision God choose to represent Med-Pers with a Ram with two horns (as one animal) and then also show them as two seprate animals in a Lion and a Bear?

Prochecy is too detailed, consistent, and specific for this scenario. It just doesn&#039;t fit well with me.

I do easily see how the others play out. Its not that hard. But, I believe that The Bear (and the others) possibly represent something else.

Acerohombre
Apr 3rd 2003, 07:20 PM
The Lion= the kindom of Babylon


The other aspect of this is that anywhere in the Bible where prophecy is specifically given it has been about a future event. Otherwise it wouldn&#039;t be prophecy, right? Or, one could run the risk of being considered a false prophet.

Daniel received this vision while he was captive of the Babylonian Empire.

Why would God give Daniel a prophecy of something that is happening currently?

It just doesn&#039;t fit with the rest of prophecy in the Bible. This case would truly be an exception in the word and God is too consistent for this to happen.

recoveringpunker
Apr 3rd 2003, 07:30 PM
Prophecy doesn&#039;t always mean prediction. To prophecy is to tell the Word of God.

You could accuratly say, I will prophecy and then preach scripture.

Of course we tend to always get the prediction aspect of it, and in Daniel I believe it is a future event..... but possible with modern (then) references. Such as Reveltaions will talk about swords and horse back....well I don&#039;t see any army being succefull like that today.

Sky
Apr 4th 2003, 03:02 AM
Revelation 5:5, &quot;And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.&quot;

Like a lion he crouches and lies down, like a lioness---who dares to rouse him? The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler&#039;s staff from between his feet, until he (Messiah) comes to whom it belongs, and the obedience of the nations is his. He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk.&quot; (Genesis 49:9-11)

Acerohombre
Apr 5th 2003, 07:59 PM
Prophecy doesn&#039;t always mean prediction. To prophecy is to tell the Word of God.


You are thinking prophesy which would be that act of fortelling of prophecy.

Teke
Oct 16th 2004, 03:30 PM
The animals mentioned are unclean animals also. So they could also represent Gentile nations. Them being united into one nation or beast.

The lion is used in descriptions in scripture to describe fierceness.

1Ch 12:8 And of the Gadites there separated themselves unto David into the hold to the wilderness men of might, [and] men of war [fit] for the battle, that could handle shield and buckler, whose faces [were like] the faces of lions, and [were] as swift as the roes upon the mountains;

Notice also that with the lion description here there is also the "roe" which is a clean animal. These men joined with David. In the animals we are speaking of there is no mention of clean animals. Meaning they do not join with a Christian nation.

Here is an example of them joined in peace. Clean animals with unclean animals.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Now notice in judgement, they are all unclean to punish Israel. Here in Jeremiah all unclean animals again.

Jer 5:6 Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, [and] a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, [and] their backslidings are increased.

So I would look at who or what animal they are joined to.

gilgalbiblewheel
Oct 24th 2004, 06:46 AM
I think it's still hard to identify. I believe it is the One world Government. The 10 horns might be 10 of the most powerfull elite around the globe and then the 11th.

Habakkuk says:
Chapter 1:
11 Then shall his mind change, and he shall pass over, and offend, imputing this his power unto his god.

The 13th book from Isaiah has similarities with the 13th chapter of Revelation.

Also Romans 13 has a contrast with Revelation 13:



Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


Revelation 13:
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority...
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Also Acts 13 had Sergius Paulus and the False Prophet Bar-Jesus, just as Revelation 13 has the Beast and the False Prophet (though he was not named "False prophet" until later).

#11 seems to be significant in ruling or reigning, I believe since Joseph was the 11th of Jacob. The Little horn is also the 11th. Joseph meant "adding". Acts 11 believers who were scattered preached in other cities and believers were "added". Genesis 11 would be significant linking the Tower of Babel with the little horn. #11 had played a big role in 911 incident. Newsweek, I believe, said "Terrorism the threat to Globalization".

Trumpetz
Dec 31st 2005, 08:26 AM
[quote]Originally posted by bdh
Based on Daniel 7, a number of people seem to think the following:

The Lion = Great Britain
The Bear = Russia
The Eagle = The United States
The Leopard = Germany (some say France)
Ten horned beast = 10 end time nations the antichrist will usurp
_____

Read the whole book of Daniel...
The Lion= the kindom of Babylon
The Bear=Medo-Persia
The Leopard= Grecia
The terrible beast with 10 horns= the Roman empire(which was broken up into 10 kingdoms).
The little horn that came up out of the remnants of the Roman empire= the papacy... Joseph(adventwatch@hotmail.com)


The Quartet

In Nebuchadnezzars' dream, Daniel 2 describes the Babylon, Media-Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Daniel 8 describe Media-Persia as a ram and Greeks as a goat. Daniel 7 interprets the lion, bear, eagle and bear saying "four kingdoms that will arise". Egypt, Assyria and Babylon were already kingdoms. By the time John saw the beast in Revelation 13, the lion, bear and leopard merged together into one powerful kingdom. During this vision, both Daniel and John were looking at the government in place in the future at the tribulation. Iraq, Iran, Greece and Italy are not merging together as the four leaders of a super-state as described in the Bible. Revelation 17 interprets the vision saying five have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media-Persia and Greece) one is (Rome) the other has not yet come (European Union) and the beast is the eight and part of the seventh. Since Babylon, Media-Persia and Greece have already fallen, those kingdoms cannot be the symbols that the vision references. Only the Roman empire of iron in Daniel 2 lives on.

The United Kingdom, United States, Russia and Germany make up the most powerful political and economic nations on earth that are pushing toward the New World Order. The quartet of the lion, eagle, bear and leopard make up The Quartet. They are following a Road Map of Peace for the Anti-christ to confirm the covenant with Israel. The beast had the mouth of a lion - English language and the eagle stood up like a man. The fatal wound that divided east and west German has been healed.

Soon, this world government will be lead by an iron political leader called the Anti-christ, the little horn and a clay religious leader called the false prophet as it is written in Revelation 13 and 17. The Pope during the tribulation is not the Anti-christ or little horn but the false prophet. Then Russia will break with the beast and lead the Islamic nations against Israel as written in Ezekiel 38-39 and Daniel 11.

Daniel 2, Daniel 8
gold – Babylon
silver – ram – Media-Persia
bronze – goat - Greece
iron – Rome
iron/clay – European Union

Daniel 7, Revelation 13 – The Quartet
lion – United Kingdom – United Nations
eagle – United States
bear – Russia
leopard – Germany – European Union

The Greek word pardalis is used for both leopard and panther.

Western European Union
Interesting to note, the Western European Union which is the military power for the European Union has 10 voting members who are Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, United Kingdom. The Secretary General is Javier Solana.

Daniel 7:15-18
"I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this.
"So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever-yes, for ever and ever.'

Revelation 17:9-14
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings–and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers.

RND
Sep 19th 2006, 03:09 AM
Based on Daniel 7, a number of people seem to think the following:

The Lion = Great Britain
The Bear = Russia
The Eagle = The United States
The Leopard = Germany (some say France)
Ten horned beast = 10 end time nations the antichrist will usurp

Some links that may help:
http://www.fastboot.com/united_states_bible.html
http://www.thekingiscoming.com/Tbs/2002/200207/the_bible_says.html
http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/united-states-prophecy.html

Aren't the beasts listed in Daniel 7 the same beasts listed in Daniel 8 and the statue symbols of Daniel 2?

In Ancient Babylon the official symbol of the government was a winged lion.

http://images.google.com/images?q=babylon+lion+wings&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

The Medio-Persian empire is represented as the bear, and being raised up on one side meant the empire was strong on one particular side. The Persian side. The three ribs in it's mouth represented the three distinct kingdoms of ancient Babylon.

Since there is no eagle mentioned in Daniel 7 I am left to guess at what you may have been alluding to.

The Four Headed leopard represents the Armies of Alexander the Great and the four generals that led his mighty army, Ptolemy, Seleucus, Cassander and Lysimachus.

And of course the 10 headeed beast is Europe, after the conquer of Rome by the state church.

Wintermute
Nov 2nd 2007, 12:03 AM
Not trying to throw a spanner in the works here but if the Bible is prophetic then surely it can and does refer to the US (or any other nation for that matter) in the sense that it speaks of events which are still to take place? If an event is still to occur, can one say with any degree of certainty that this nation or that nation is not going to be involved?

Stated differently, whether America is the eagle or not, is it not a significant fact in itself that America is the only real super power in the world today? Throughout history God has used the super power of the day for some specific task. E.g. the Egyptians, Medes, Persians, Roman Empire etc. If you believe God is consistent, does it not follow that America will be [is] as significant player in the end times scenario?

There are those that believe the second beast of Revelation 13 is in reference to the territory occupied by the United States.

Saved7
Nov 3rd 2007, 09:25 PM
The terrible beast with 10 horns= the Roman empire(which was broken up into 10 kingdoms).
(adventwatch@hotmail.com)


This is very interesting, and i haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if you have to repeat yourself.
WE know that the "10 kings" of the end times will give their power to the beast...so who were the 10 kingdoms the the roman empire broke into as it fell apart? :confusedThis will answer then the question I have of who the 10 kingdoms will be at the end.:):hmm:

Brother Mark
Nov 3rd 2007, 11:35 PM
REV 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

What do these symbolize? Do they refer to people or nations or something completely different?

Gen 3:1 "Now the serpent was more subtle than all the beast of the field"

Serpent = satan
beast of the field = demons/evil spirits

Not sure how this fits into Rev. But we know the dragon = satan and the beast will be demonized.

Midwest Bob
Nov 7th 2007, 01:59 PM
REV 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

What do these symbolize? Do they refer to people or nations or something completely different?


The leopard, bear and lion beast is a spiritual kingdom that has arisen out of the same geographic area as Daniels leopard bear and lion kingdoms.
Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom..." Daniel tells us that beasts are kingdoms. In Rev13:2 we see a composite beast that consist of the leopard bear and lion kingdoms. History shows that the lion was Babylon now occupied by Iraq, bear was Medo-Persia now occupied by Iran and the leopard was Greece now occupied by Syria/Lebanon. This Spiritual kingdom is Islam. This beast (islam) suffered a mortal head wound at the battle of Tours in 732 when Charles Martel stopped the Islamic army by killing the head of the islamic army Abd-ar-Rahman (the mortal head wound) This wound has since healed, Islam has once again became a threat. This has occurred because of the western nations unquenchable thirst for oil has made the Islamic nations wealthy enough to wage jihad once again.
Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,..." So we can see from the book of Rev that the dragon who gave islam their seat and authority is satan.

For those who would like a full explantion of all this please visit this WEBSITE (http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm)
May God bless our studies!

Saved7
Nov 14th 2007, 12:43 AM
Now THAT is an interesting and informative perspective M.Bob. Thanks for sharing that.
I beleive Islam has something to do with the end times, and couldn't quite piece it together right. I think this is helpful. I think I will check out your site too.
Thanks.:)

Studyin'2Show
Nov 16th 2007, 03:20 AM
Thanks, Bob! That was an excellent link. It really did make a lot of sense and tied many things together well.

God Bless!

jeffweeder
Nov 16th 2007, 04:06 AM
This beast (islam) suffered a mortal head wound at the battle of Tours in 732 when Charles Martel stopped the Islamic army by killing the head of the islamic army Abd-ar-Rahman (the mortal head wound) This wound has since healed, Islam has once again became a threat.

Thats interesting history.He was the Grandfather of Charlemagne.
The mohammedans (turkish) made another assault a tousand years later on Europe nations.
They met their defeat in Vienna 1683 by the Polish..John Sobieski.
The Roman world was crumbling and once holy lands/ Christian, were being overun by Arabian Mohammedism, which took the biblical lands, then turkish Mohammedans, who were more brutal took Constantinople in the mid 1400's.

angelicsong
Oct 9th 2008, 04:08 AM
The eagle spoken of in the book of Revelation, in the Holy Bible, could be Germany.

http://www.bloomsberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aIcEL0jjSK74&refer=home

angelicsong
Oct 9th 2008, 04:12 AM
The Nazis in Germany used an eagle.

dan
Oct 10th 2008, 02:31 AM
...Is Africa, not Germany. The symbol for France has always been the Cock (that's right, a chicken!).

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